(upbeat music) – Don't look at the camera. – Oh okay, okay. – If you look at the camera it's like, – That's all you need to say. – All right.
– Okay. – So, we were just talking
about something interesting which is your background is, you're a DemandGen Marketer. Gimme, go back in history a little bit, 'cause you have a, you
have an interesting story from Eloqua to Alatis to
what you're doing today What was, how did you get
into DemandGen, and what was, I wanna talk, I wanna unpack
like what DemandGen was, and then, what it's transformed into. – Oh yeah yeah, Actually
it's so funny you say that, 'cause I was just, I just had this long, I actually just did a way with like the concept of DemandGen on my team, and I have this whole theory
on like, what DemandGen is now.
– Yeah. – But anyway. – Which we're also gonna talk about. – Okay.
– Okay. – So, I actually bought a
marketing automation platform back in like two thousand
and I don't know, six or something like that. – How much was that? – Oh gosh, geez Dave
– It wasn't cheap. – Right off with the hard questions. – It wasn't cheap. – No it wasn't cheap,
– It couldn't have been cheap. – For, at that time it wasn't, I mean marketers weren't
buying tons of technology at the time, so like. – That's why, that's the only reason why I asked how much it was, 'cause I bet that feels
like it had to have been the most expensive thing
anybody had ever bought.
– Oh for sure.
– Okay. – And it was also like, marketers weren't good at like,
making those business cases, or like, and CEO's
didn't know how to like, why should I justify this thing, over this thing.
– Right. – So, you know it was this typical case of we were using like a batch and
blast email tool, and like, loading up lots from cell force,
and doing that whole thing, and I had a really smart
guy, who worked for me, who was really young, and he was like, I think we need to do this
marketing automation thing, it's gonna be a big deal, we should do it. And I was like, hmm. And then I started to look
into it, and I was like, you're absolutely right, like it's kinda like this
one thing that we can own, we can have control over
it, we can own our own data, we can do all this cool stuff.
So I ended up, we ended up
in this head to head deal, with what was then Silver Pop which became Vetrax, and Eloqua. And we ended up buying Silver Pop. And so, and I got to be
part of this, you know, process where we built kind
of the DemandGen process, and implemented the funnel
and did all that stuff. And so that was my sort
of, first foray into that. – Right. – So fast forward, this was,
it had to have been like 2008, 'cause like the economy just tanked, and suddenly I find myself out of work, and I got an interview at Eloqua. And all they wanted to talk about was why didn't you buy Eloqua? And I was like.
– Did they remember you? – Oh yeah, oh are you kidding me? Yeah.
I was uniquely positioned to like, explain everything that went
wrong in their sales process. – Which is like, probably
what made you an amazing hire. 'Cause they can tell the other side. – It was, it was. I actually
had all this intel, like, I had the business case we had built, and I had all these
side by side comparisons of both platforms, and
so, that's, I think, what got me my job at Eloqua. And you know, I think that was really when DemandGen was starting to
form into a real discipline, and become a career path to people. – Yeah. – And, I do credit the
marketing automation ecosystem, for kinda giving birth to that. I think that's where that all started. – Well I think, I think if you rewind, 'cause my guess is, I
wasn't there obviously but, 2006 like it's harder for
you to make the case, what? – Where you in second grade? – No c'mon.
– Or where were you, where were you? – 2006 I was.
– I wasn't there.
– No, no I meant I wasn't at your company. – Oh right, okay. I was like, ah I feel so old. – No, no, no. 2006 I
was freshmen in college, or sophomore in college. – Okay, okay. All right,
all right you're close. – Yeah, yeah. Just doing
a bunch of nothing. Absolutely nothing. – Oh please, I don't
believe that for a minute. – No, nothing that has
helped me today, at all. I can tell you that. No, but, 'cause I'm sure it was hard to
go and make this big expense, because marketing wasn't, it wasn't easy to attribute
marketing to, to revenue.
– Well, marketers didn't know
how to prove much of anything, I think, back in those days. I mean like, we weren't really asked to. I mean in, at the beginning of my career when I first got into marketing, like, I don't ever really remember
being pushed for metrics. Let alone, like, tie myself to revenue. That wasn't a thing. And, the tools didn't
exist really to do it. – Where were you pushed forward then? – Activity, showing
that I was doing stuff. Like, you know, I worked for
a lot of CEOs who I think, like to justify that
marketing was, should exist, they needed to show
that they were just like doing a lot of stuff. Like, that's literally what it was. – Write a lot of events, or
printing out a lot of stuff. – Yeah, I mean it was a little bit of that to be honest with you.
And, it wasn't really
until I got to Eloqua that it was like oh, this is hardcore. I mean Eloqua had, they were
trying to lead the market, and have a philosophy about
how this should be done. So, marketing had a number, and it was an opportunity
number, we carried an SQO number, we were all bonused on it, our
comp plans were tied to it.
Eloqua sent a marketer to a
president's club every year, like, it was a real thing. – So, did that feel like a
big culture shift, for you? Like, wow I'm among, I'm among
all these people, like me. – Well, then it was, it was
actually a little intimidating 'cause it was cooking for chefs. It was like, oh okay this
is where the big kids are. – I feel like that everyday, because like, we sell to marketing people
and so, if there's a typo, if there's something off, like, people love to take a
screenshot and send that to me, because it's like oh you're gonna show me how to do my job, buddy.
Well, check this out. – Wuss.
– You can't even spell. – I think I say this. So I mean, I've made
a career of marketing, marketing technology to marketers, – Yeah that's what I've done for
most of my adult life.
And, I do think like, you do
have to work a lot harder. I think marketers like
marketing, and they check it out, and they're interested in it. But they also scrutinize it. – Which, I love it though for that reason. – Oh yeah. – 'Cause I actually feel
like I think one of the, so I've had a similar,
only done marketing, or I started off in PR. Just
'cause I needed a job, and. – Why everyone starts out in PR. – They said I'll pay you 10
dollars an hour to come be here, and great. So I did that. And then, but then since then
I've only done marketing to marketers just by coincidence. Constant Contact, Campspot, and Drift.
And why I realized that I love is like, if you know it, it makes, it makes the hard part
of marketing much easier. – Oh. – Which is like, I would
be terrible at my job if I was like the, if I was doing marketing at a cybersecurity company, or storage, or something like.
– I tried it. I was really bad at it. Wait, so I was bad at
it but I don't, like. I mean, to some extent I think I was lazy. Like, I was like, I
don't know this person, and I'm not sure I care
to know this person. It is easier when the persona that you're marketing to is you. I also think the nice thing
about it is, like I said right, like, you can get away with a lot less when you're marketing to marketers. You have to be creative,
you have to be witty, you have to be clever, you have to like, you have to be all these things.
And I actually think it makes the, the challenge of marketing
to some extend even harder. So I think, you know, if I were marketing to
a different persona, the challenge would be elsewhere. I'd have to get to know that buyer, and that would be really hard, and there would be other
thing that would be difficult. But marketing to marketers
really forces like, the discipline around, is this
the best thing I could do? – Yeah. – Like, am I being lazy here? Is it funny? Is it interesting is it engaging? – Somebody's gonna call me out. – Someone's gonna call you out. – Would I, like. I think in
most energies would work, but the thing, I think. And
obviously the advice is like, do what your costumer, or
listen to your costumer, talk with your costumer. – Yes, yeah.
– A lot of times I just like, I'm like would I click on this? – Oh totally, totally.
– Would I read this? – I sent an email yesterday to my team, and I was like worst subject line ever. And then, two people were
like, I think it's hysterical. And I'm just like, oh
God, all right, well. – Yeah
– It's you know. It's subjective. – Which might not always
be the right thing. 'Cause I think I might be
biased in a different way. – Oh 100%. So, and that's the thing too, you have to remember like, your own value system, and opinions, and it is somewhat subjective.
Like you can't objectively say like, well that's good marketing. – Totally. – But I do think like, one thing I like about
marketing to marketers is that I do think it allows
you to be a bit more creative, than you could be, with some
other, you know, cohorts. And, I love that part of it. 'Cause for as left brained
as I am, I really like the, I like the arts and crafts
part of marketing a lot. – Yeah, like I could never
do, I could never go to, I could never be at the different place and do something like, I posted this LinkedIn
video which is like, I'm gonna do 30 sales demos in 30 days.
– Oh, I saw that. – I'm gonna actually sell. – See, I started as a BDR.
I would never do that. – Well now,
– Oh god. – People, somebody commented
on this LinkedIn post the other day like, I
didn't get a demo from you. And I'm like I did 30,
and my month is over, like, what do you want me to do. – I met my quota. – That's my regular job. But like, I could do
stuff like that because I don't need to prep, like I'm just gonna talk to you about how I think
– Yeah sure – That we can help you.
– Yeah sure. – So, you go to Eloqua. Did it feel like, where
was Eloqua, by the way? – Eloqua was also a
Toronto-based business. I have made a career
out of just communing. – You live in this area, and then in Boston where we are locally, and then you just go to Canada for work. – Yeah, Toronto's a
really nice second home. – Toronto is amazing. – Yeah, it's a great city.
It's easy to get to.
– Toronto's amazing. – Toronto, so Eloqua
was founded in Toronto, they were headquartered here in the U.S. But in Vienna, Virginia. When they originally, you
know, had incorporated here. – Were like, were Brian,
Carter and people I know, – Sharnof, all those people.
– They were in Toronto? – No they were in
Cambridge, Massachusetts. – Oh. – So we had, what we like to refer to as the Marketing Center of Excellence.
Was in Kendall Square. – Love it. – So, the marketing team was. – You had a good group there. – Oh, we had a killer group. It was a really, really good group. It was, Brian used to referred it to as, the golden age of marketing. – Of course. – So yeah, so it was, no, it
was good, and I was really. – This is where we cut to the footage of Brian and Joe on this. But, we had Brian on this. – I know, I saw that. – And it was like a
thousand degrees that day, and this is when Gonzalo, we were originally gonna do
sort of coffee the same oh, it's at a coffee shop, it
was like 200 degrees out, and he's carrying all the
gear just pouring sweat.
And we were like, you know what. – Nice. – For Brian we're gonna do it. We're gonna do it in person. – That's nice. – He had the note card
in his pocket since then. – Oh he doesn't go without the note card. – I love that. – The note card's always there. – And he has an index
card in his front pocket. – Always.
– I love that. – Always.
– I have a little pocket note. – Oh, he is among the most, he is like, the most interesting man on the world.
– Yeah. – And like, it's real
subtle you would never know, but he really is. And you know, he's like
unbelievable tennis player. – I did, I thought you
were gonna say, like, he to me feels like a jazz musician. – Yeah he's also that. He's an
incredible saxophone player. I've been to parties at his
house, and they're like jamming, all these like dudes,
like these older guys.
– What do I have to do to get
an invite to Brian Cardin. – Oh you gotta get in tight with him. – I feel like it's like, great
wine, someone's on the piano. – Oh it's real good. It's
real, it's all of those things. – All right, so you had this crew, you had this crew here in
Boston, Cambridge area. – Yeah. – Was it hard being, was
it hard being like a, did you feel you were a remote team, and everybody was in Toronto,
like you had the CMO, in here.
– No, no. Eloqua did this really well. So, actually, they were very distributed. You had the CEO and CFO
were in Vienna, Virginia. The CMO was here in Cambridge. Our Chief Revenue Officer
was in Austin, Texas. Like, so it was, it was real distributed. There was an office in San Francisco. And Eloqua really built
a discipline around how do you have remote teams, and make them really feel
like part of the company.
It was one of the tightest, and sort of best cultures
I've ever worked, you know, been a part of. And, it was totally remote. So, they did something,
I don't know what it was, I've tried to put my finger on it, I mean, it had a lot to do with
bringing people together very regularly, doing, I
mean, before people used Zoom, they did everything on video. I mean every meeting was on video, you were always looking at people.
– Yeah. – So there was a good discipline there. But their philosophy I think, was like, hire great people no
matter where they are. We did, part of our marketing
team was in Toronto, so that, you know, that's
got the normal challenges, but right now I manage a team of marketers that all set in Toronto, when I'm here – Yeah
– in the northeast. So it's, it's totally doable. – All right, so tell me
more about, tell me about, tell me what you're doing today, I wanna know like, how many
people are in your team, how do you have this structured in, and specially you said,
coming from you DemandGen. – Oh yeah. – Background, you're doing a
way with the concept of it. – Yeah, so like there's
this weird thing that, I think happens on a lot,
in like a lot of DemandGen, you know, in a DemandGen
group where sometimes you have like, this DemandGen function, and like a marketing ops function, and then you have like
content people over here, and they're not like
part of the same team, and it's just like, it's
always been problematic for me, because I think at least content, that type of content
where's top of funnel, mid-funnel content, is
all about DemandGen.
– Yeah. – So I sort of like,
broke that association, and I actually made this
kind of like integrated, or like revenue marketing or
growth marketing function, or whatever. And it's like, you know, it's marketing programs, it's the orchestration of demand, which I actually think DemandGen today is mostly orchestration. Like that's what it is, right? It's like trafficking, and your know, asset creation, and all that stuff. – Yeah. – And I bundled that up with content. – Yeah. – So it's really concerned with the teams, and the offers, and the
campaigns, and the channels, and it's all in one group. But I don't have like a,
head of DemandGen running it. What I actually did was
I took my really great head of DemandGen who
probably knows our product better than anybody else, and made him our head of product marketing. Which was a weird, everyone thought that
was kind of a weird move. – Yeah. – I'm like, but why?
He's already in Evangels, he knows our product really well, he knows where all the gaps are, so he's the best person for this job. – I love that mindset because I think it's easy to
get caught up in like, this person is doing this, and so, they have to go deep in this.
Where it's like wait a second, if we move this person here,
you know, it just seems crazy, you have somebody who
knows the product the best, but you're gonna hire somebody who is gonna do product marketing who isn't that way.
– Well that's exactly, I mean this kept me up
at night, I was like, so we had this big gap
in product marketing that we needed to fill, and
the more I though about it, I was like, well what's really important for product marketing?
Knowledge of the product.
And it's like so, how're
you gonna hire someone from outside, who has no
knowledge of the product to be really good at product marketing. It'll take them a long time to ramp. – I think like, I think in
product marketing like if you, if you're passionate
about it, and my guess is, knowing this person probably
super passionate about it. – Super passionate. – 'Cause you can't love a B
to B product, right? Like. – You gotta be a big nerd. – You gotta be a big nerd. – Oh yeah. It also helps
that he is Canadian. – Perfect. – So very earnest.
– That's a trifecta. – Yeah.
– All the right ingredients. – It's getting it done, Yeah. – And then you can, you can teach, or learn the other 10%, which is like what is product
marketing? Right, like, 'cause I bet you could take somebody. This is why, this is one
of my biggest frustrations with marketers, is like, I think sometimes we get
caught up in like the, what the textbook best practice says.
– I know. – Which is like, I would rather give a product, I would rather take your person, and say, write a positioning, write the
positioning for this product, with no framework, with no magic document. Then have somebody who knows
like the positioning template. – Yeah. – And fill that out. I bet you
that one is gonna be better. – So, it's funny that you say that, like I think about this a lot, like, so in my experience over
the past four years. So this is my first, this
is my first job where I got to run marketing.
And like, you know, I
was DemandGen marketer, I had not run all of marketing before. But I had done, like you, I had touched other parts of marketing, I had worked on the PR and comp side, I worked on product marketing. So I had fairly broad knowledge. And, it's so easy to kind of let, like history and best practice
guide you, and just like, I'm gonna do the thing
that everybody does.
And then, but like if
you're honest with yourself, you really think about
how to solve problems, often it points to different
types of solutions. And so, I've been, I'm really lucky to work
in an organization where the CEO who's real, like,
supportive, and completely, he's just a sane and normal person. Like there's no, like ego, he's not like " I said to do
it, so you're gonna do it." He's like " you think that's
the right thing to do? Lets see if it works" – Sure. – So, I've tried a lot of
really unconventional things. Like, so, I have a great, I have a great marketing
programs person on my team, and he was BDR, and he had
no marketing experience, but he knew our buyer really well. I had seen that he had really
good communication skills, I looked at all his emails. He was really funny, and witty.
And he wanted to get
a career in marketing. And like, it was a great
move for everybody. So, it's just like. – Yeah
– I don't, you know, I just don't think those conventional, just because that's the
way everyone has done it, doesn't mean that the way
everyone should do it. – What is one of your biggest, what's one of your biggest
learnings like, taking on, now you own all of
marketing, what do you think. 'Cause I think we do this, because we wanna talk to people who are in a similar position, or one day want to run
marketing for example, right? – Yeah, yeah. – What are the things that
are, that you didn't realize? – Oh gosh, so many things.
I mean it was interesting.
So, obviously the company that
I joined is not the company I work for now, I mean, when we joined, when I joined we were 20 people maybe. We were very small, we
hadn't raised any money. It was super scrappy. – So, even when you
started, you had to do more, you were doing more. – And it was actually part
of why I took the job, why I really took the job was 'cause I fell in love with the problem these guys were tryna solve. And they built something, that
I as a marketer looked at, and was like, I've needed
that my whole career, like, why did, someone built this thing, thank you, you know. So, that was big part of it. But I also, like, I fell,
as a director of DemandGen, I was senior director
of DemandGen Altatis, I was building teams, and I was like, I knew that discipline really
well, and I knew how to do it, but I felt like I was just
like managing people mostly. And I wanted, I felt like my
skills were started to atrophy, at least I thought that, and
I was like, I wanna like, do the work, I wanna roll
up my sleeves and like, – Yeah.
– build some stuff.
And so, I took this job,
there was pretty much no team, there were like a few people, and they weren't all full time, and so I was like, I'm just
gonna see what I can do, and oh man. My skills
did not atrophy like, I was fine, I like.
– Yeah. – But I really, I had to do the work. Like, I had to do like,
all the heavy lifting. – I wrote something about this, this week.
I mean, who knows when
this is gonna go live, so this week is irrelevant. But, like, and I said I used to get probably
like five, six years ago, I would go and ask a lot of people, like you for marketing advice. I would say, look, you know, you're on the path to
running marketing somewhere, like you know, what do you do? Like, you know, what
advise would you give me? And everybody gave me this
advice which I realize now, I completely disagree with
and did not help me at all.
– Oh god. – Which is like, specialize in something. – Oh. – Pick that one thing, and specialize, and what I've had to do is like, instead, I said, I'm gonna join a company where I'm betting on the
people, on the problem, so the founders in the market. And I don't know what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna have to do all of it. – Yeah.
– So as a result. – Get kind of good at a bunch of things. – Had to do, you know, PR,
events, SEO, blog, webinars. – Yeah, I had the BDR
team reporting into me for several months. – And did you ever
manage BDRs in your life? – Never in my life. And like you know, I've been close to it, and I
had a point of view about it, and I, you know, it was at a point in time
in the company's history that it was the right thing to do, and it just needed to be done.
And I needed to manage it, and I did. But, I had no idea how to do that. – Yeah – And, but that's what makes it fun. I mean, in a company like
this, that's growing so fast, our growth stage company we've now raised two rounds of funding. I mean, we're just, you know,
deloy fast 50 in Canada, so we're growing real fast. We're now well over 100 people, my job has not been the same. I mean, every year I've been there it's been totally different, it's like remarkable to
look back, and go wow, that was the same company. So you have to, I mean,
well in those, you know, that first year which
was all the building, – Yeah. – And the, which I love, I love building demand
infrastructure, and process, and like, I'm a process
person, I love that stuff. I love, you know, I love figuring out how we're
gonna measure things, and. But you know, now it's, it's much more about building
teams, managing people, figuring out how to like,
work on a management team, and have that be my number one thing.
I mean, you have to start
to get used to like, oh those things that mad
you good at your job before, are not the things that are gonna make you
good at your job now. You have to get comfortable with that. So, that's hard. – I think what you said
is really important, which is like that mindset of just like, always reinventing yourself. – Yeah. – Like every year is gonna be different, and you gotta figure out what are the things that you're
gonna go work on this year. – But it's much easier, I will say, when you're on a winning team. I mean, you know, to be on
a team with great people, where the company is
growing fast, is when, like, that's what enables that kind of growth, because you're forced to
constantly, like level up, and you know, find some
new parts of your brain.
– You don't really get that, if the team isn't winning, you don't get the opportunities to like. – You don't. – Experiment, right?
– You don't. That's true, yeah. – All right, I wanna do
something else with you before you go, but I'm
interested in what are your, what are your rituals, as a remote – Oh my God. – Marketing leader, like what, how do you keep the ship
running, without missing, without, you know, being on the like, hey can I grab you for a second? – You're gonna be so
unimpressed during this.
– No, maybe there's
nothing, and it's great. – So okay, one thing that I. – You have cameras in
every room in your house. All the time.
– No, it's no. It's so crazy, so, one thing
that I'm like obsessed with, is like, the appropriate use of time. My time, my team's time, like, there's nothing drives
me more crazy than like, sitting in a meeting that
I'm just like, why am I here? Why is this meeting
happening? Like, not even. – Me too. – Even if I'm the one who, who you know, thought we should have that
meeting, like I'm just like, oh this is a waste of time.
So, and my team, will
laugh when they see this, but like, at least every six
months I completely like, burn down the meetings
schedule, and I start over. – I just did this. – I gotta think it, I gotta re-think it. And there's better way to do it. – The past two weeks have been the best, has been the most free
I've felt in a long time. 'Cause I can't, I just hit hard reset. – Yeah, you gotta do it sometimes. – And 'cause, you know, you're getting all these things
that don't have a purpose, or a need. – Yeah. Or they did at one
point, and they don't now. – Sure. – And so, I mean, as my team has changed, I've had to really, re-think like. – All right. – How do we spend time together. – So Elle has burned, like, I'm just destroying the calendar phase. – I do it a lot.
– Okay. – Like I do it pretty regularly.
That's one thing, I almost
never have a communication, if it's gonna be longer than
like, couple of sentences, it's happening on video. Like, we're looking at each other. I had to have a conversation
with someone yesterday about a holiday card,
and I knew it was like, gonna be a little bit more
than I could convey over slack, and I was like, you got a second? Let's just like, hop
on Zoom. So we do that. We do on team, our marketing
like Slack channel is, we make ample use of that thing. I mean, often for ridiculous reasons. – We make ample use of
ours on the channel. – Yean I can. We do too. I
mean, it's, but that makes me, it helps me to feel really
connected to what's going on, even when I'm not there. – Yeah. – You also have to be there. I spend a lot of time with my team, I go, I try to go at least once a month. I go to a lot of events, and a lot of people on
my team go to events, so we rendezvous in various locations, and so we have the
discipline to do that stuff.
Those are the big things, I mean. It's all about
communication, and just like, you know, you gotta stay
on top of it, that's it. – And probably setting, how do set goals, like, my guess is this system doesn't work if people don't have clear, like, goals. – Oh, they have to be super clear. So, one thing I will say, I think about, specially being a remote manager, where like I started out as
a remote head of marketing. And I knew early on, like the only way for that to work is if the people I hire were senior enough. Like, I couldn't have people
on the ground in Toronto who were like looking
for help all the time, they had to be fairly autonomous,
and, so I hired a sort of, a layer of management that was, you know, working their way up to being senior, and where you know, could, you know, operate without a ton of oversight.
That's an important thing. We take goal setting pretty seriously. It's a company wide
quarter land initiative that starts with company
goals, and rolls down, I try to stick to like three goals, but I try to make it very, very clear how they sort of map
to each of the people. – What are your three goals for right now? – So we have a goal around SEO, and find-ability, getting found. SEO hasn't been a huge worry,
sort of a niche category, and emerging category. – How do you pick that, like, out of the 20 things you could, because you picked that as a
goal it becomes a priority.
– Because the time was right, right now. I mean again, like, we have, if you, so like for a company our
size, and at our stage, we have incredibly matured demand, infrastructure, and process. Like, I'm not worried
about that, I know how to. – 'Cause you love the
infrastructure in practice. – I know how to do that part, so like, it's almost table-sakes stakes to say, well we're gonna have an SQO goal, like, and we're gonna know how to
build a really crazy model to figure out what that should look like, and we're gonna do all this stuff. That's a must, so then, you have to look in the margins of like, well what's gonna help us grow? It's all about growth, right? – Who does that, who does
the model on your team? Marketing ops? – I have a revenue ops person,
and so he does the model.
– Cool. – Yeah, he owns that model. And we've added a ton of
like, interesting, and fun, and sophisticated things
to make that model like, more bulletproof over the past,
you know, several quarters. But SEO was a thing where you start to go, we were this kind of niche category, it's starting to become a thing, people are like looking
for something like us, even if they're not sure what to call it. We need to be there when they're looking. And we hadn't done a good job of investing in those kind of adjacent
spaces, so I made it a priority. – And how do you set, what is it like, how do you set a goal
around SEO, is it traffic? – It's like a, we've carved out a couple of key words that we
thought were really important, and we wanna increase our
organize search ranking. – Awesome. – And not by a certain
amount, just increase.
Make it better. 'Cause then you can start to go, okay, so now we've got a benchmark. – So you don't say this term
is on a bottom of page one, and we wanna get to page, we
wanna get to position two. – No that's what we'll do next. – Okay. – Today it's just, create the content, build the process, build the discipline, and the muscle memory around, this is an important
thing that we need to do, so that we start to, it's starts
to get built into our DNA. – So, when's our people are high-fiving, because all of a sudden this
page now ranks for blank. – It's better, it's better. And now, I can say, okay now
we're gonna make it better by an order of magnitude. – Which is also a different skillset, in person that has to work on that. – Of course. – Or you can teach it, but
that's optimizing like, how do you get from position
A to position two, and yeah.
– Yes, absolutely. And we always have a demand centered goal, and that demand goal is always
tied to a conversion goal, 'cause I'll never sign
up for a demand goal that's just like, I could, you know, pump all kinds of crap in there. – Sure.
– That's one. – All right, so SEO is one. – Yeah.
– What are the other two? – So the other one is like
kinda content specific, so. – So, you have like, we have like your revenue
pipeline are kinda like, you don't count those as
goals, 'cause that's just. – Those are company-wide goals. – That's just life. – Yep, that's life. – You have three kinda
marketing priorities that are set on top.
– And those, those company goals are goals
for everyone in the company, like everyone shares those goals, they're departmental
goals that my team has.
So, one is around DemandGen, one is around SEO this quarter, and the other one is actually
around persona level content. 'Cause got really good at marketing to DemandGen marketers
that tends to be out buyer. But we tend to focus primarily on them. And really, there's a lot of other buyers involved in our deal cycles, so we set a goal of
have, creating, you know, three new unique pieces of content per each additional persona that we see in out buying cycles. – Yeah. – And so, it's a, I mean,
it's a quantitative goal. – Sure. – It's a number of things,
but it's also little soft. Like, It's up to us what
that is, what that means. – Or like, I mean, we do stuff like that, which is like, we need
more enterprise EK studies. – Yeah.
– Well let's have five. – Yup.
– Great. – There you go.
– Okay. I know I said we were gonna go, but one more thing we didn't talk about. – Okay. – You told me you were shifting
to focus more on brand.
– Yeah. – Why? And what does that mean? – Oh, here's where I get
to give you a compliment. – No, no, no. – No, no but I do.
– But if you want to. – I do, I will.
– I love compliments. – So, I heard you talk about it. So, we both spoke at my
funnel this past summer. And you did this whole thing on, basically like, brand driving demand. And, I think that's true. I think that, you know, firts of all, like people have to know who you are, but they have to like you. You have to, it has to
be a brand that you, you care about, that you
relate to, that you know, you find interesting. Now, it's really hard on my attack, right? 'cause there's like a billilion,
you know, different brands, and it's hard to tell one
from the other, and yeah. – We interviewed somebody the other day, and it was one of those, in a good way, DemandGen ops people where, he came in, and he had his laptop
open in the interview, and he had the front of his laptop was every mark-tide vendor you could imagine.
– Tho whole thing, the whole landscape. – Basically the landscape, I was like this is, this
is why you need a brand, because this person's just gonna like whoever's giving out swag,
and put on computers. – Well, and it's funny you say that, 'cause I think like, I've
struggled to know what that means. Like what does that mean to have a brand, I guess it came into clear focus over the past several
months where I was like, we rebranded in May. And, that allowed us to
sort of like find tune how we talked about ourselves, and what's our message and all that stuff. But like, it still wasn't really clear when you looked at it, I was like what our point of view was, like what are we really, like your whole thing is
about now, and right? We know, marketing's happening right now, and your buyer wants it right now, and it's really clear what
your point of view is, and I felt like we were soft on that.
And so, we've spent the
past couple of months getting really sharp on that. And now, it's like well
how do you amplify that, and elevate it. – I think that's, what you said is, I didn't expect you to answer it that way, but to me that's a most important piece. I think you just have to pick a side. – Yeah. – Even if, even if there's another side that's like just as effective, you just need to stand for something, because if you, there's
just too much noise, and not stand for anything anymore. – Yeah, yeah. – Where like, I think it
was different 2005, 2006, you could just have something, and people are like, cool, okay. – Sure, yeah. – You have to have a reason. – And I think, you know,
that was our problem, was that we kinda stood
for a lot of things. So we like, we like this, and
we like that, and whatever. And it's like, it's not enough.
– Yeah. – And so, you know, our whole
point of view today is that, you know, buyers live
in this on-demand world, and they expect the
same kind of experiences in they B to B lives that they
have in their B to C lives. And the way that B to B
marketing works is just, it doesn't work for that, it's not really personalized
or curated, or easy to access, it doesn't surface the information that they want when they want it. And so, B to B marketing
needs to be on demand. And so, once we kinda, once that started to like
form as a point of view, it became really easy to see like, the path to like, how do you
build a big brand around this.
So I'm excited to do that. It's been fun. – Just buy a lot of stickers. – I'm gonna buy all the
stickers, and t-shirts, and the hats. – That was old school. – Okay, all right. Thanks for
doing this. I appreciate it, it's nice to hear a DemandGen
person like yourself, start to think about the softer side. – Isn't it? Yeah. – I'm just kidding, I think,
I think it's important. I think you gotta have all pieces of it, and I wanted to interview you on this because I think you have a lot
of interesting ingredients, like your background from Eloqua, and running and marketing
team being remote, and having a successful team,
and a good time doing it.
– You're gonna ask them
how successful it is. – Thanks for doing it. – Thank you. – This is, all these segments we do you, and then we do the team, so we have them all come
in on Zoom after this to tell us how you really are. – They would say good
things, they like me, they would say good things. – All right, thanks for doing this. – Thank you. Thanks very much. (upbeat music).